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Archived: Random Sports Talk

Posted Under: Entertainment

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Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 2:57 pm | #2251

Quote by Vermillion Haze:

Lebron has a lot of growing up to do to get into the Jordan discussion. He won a ring with 3 of the best players in the league on the same team on a shortened season. Jordan won with roleplayers...6 times. Almost all in a row too. Without his retirements and other ventures it would have been 7-8.

This.

I watched Lebrony for the last couple of years before he left Cleveland and he really thought he was Jordan then. But the way he'd make excuses wasn't Jordan at all.

Now, with other major players on his team, he's winning. That's great, but not really a sign of growth. Not yet, anyway. Maybe if he decides to drop all the advisors- friends, relatives, religious leaders- and stand on his own he'd seem like a man to me not just a spoiled little boy.

Jordan was (and is) a MAN.

Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:18 pm | #2252

Quote by Vermillion Haze:

Lebron has a lot of growing up to do to get into the Jordan discussion. He won a ring with 3 of the best players in the league on the same team on a shortened season. Jordan won with roleplayers...6 times. Almost all in a row too. Without his retirements and other ventures it would have been 7-8.

did you seriously just call Scottie pippen a role player and expected to be taken seriously? he's a top 30 player of all time. im not even gonna go into how horace grant, rodman etc were role players. every "great" player had great GMs and coaches, something Lebron STILL does not have. bird had 2 hof players and arguably the best time of all time, magic played with multiple HOF players, Jordan had phil Jackson arguably the greatest coach of all time in the NBA (whom Jordan couldn't make to finals without) where Lebron literally had mike brown as his coach, and his second best player being mo Williams, and he still beat the celtics, pistons, and magic BY HIMSELF.

I wouldn't even consider bosh in top 25 in the league right now, and wade is always injured but most likely a first ballot HOFer. the only team in past 35 years I can think of that won championship with 1 superstar is 2011 mavericks.

if social media was as prevelant in the 90's as it was today, you would realize Jordan is the worst excuse of a human being you could think of, but he was a great basketball player.

Re: Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:18 pm | #2253

Quote by Kat:

Quote by Vermillion Haze:

Lebron has a lot of growing up to do to get into the Jordan discussion. He won a ring with 3 of the best players in the league on the same team on a shortened season. Jordan won with roleplayers...6 times. Almost all in a row too. Without his retirements and other ventures it would have been 7-8.

This.

I watched Lebrony for the last couple of years before he left Cleveland and he really thought he was Jordan then. But the way he'd make excuses wasn't Jordan at all.

Now, with other major players on his team, he's winning. That's great, but not really a sign of growth. Not yet, anyway. Maybe if he decides to drop all the advisors- friends, relatives, religious leaders- and stand on his own he'd seem like a man to me not just a spoiled little boy.

Jordan was (and is) a MAN.

Has anyone even brought up how Jordan played college basketball too? None of this straight to the NBA crap? So after he leaves for the NBA a year early, he also comes back and finishes his college degree in 1986.

Arguably college might have helped prepare him better for the NBA, but there are three less years he has to win MVPs, etc than LeBron... Add a year and a half "retirement," in there as well.

Now before anyone gets his/her panties in a twist - yes I'm from Ohio, no I don't like what LeBron did. Yes I am also a Bulls fan since I was a kid, so yeah I am a bit partial to Jordan over Lebron.

You can't just look at raw stats, but look at how they played overall. I've watched both of them play and although they played different positions, I still haven't been as impressed by anyone as much as Jordan impressed me, consistently.

Is Lebron the best in the league right now. Probably yes. Is he the best ever? Not at the moment. I agree with Kat about needing to stand on his own. He didn't own up to moving to Miami, there's always an excuse. Put him on a team similar to Jordan's and see if they dominate...

Long and short is it is a matter of opinion. If you think Lebron is the greatest evar, so be it. However you best get over trying to convince me or anyone else that Lebron is better than Jordan. Right now IMO he's not. Lebron is the one who needs to do the convincing....

Re: Re: Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:27 pm | #2254

Quote by Minioger:

Quote by Kat:

This.

I watched Lebrony for the last couple of years before he left Cleveland and he really thought he was Jordan then. But the way he'd make excuses wasn't Jordan at all.

Now, with other major players on his team, he's winning. That's great, but not really a sign of growth. Not yet, anyway. Maybe if he decides to drop all the advisors- friends, relatives, religious leaders- and stand on his own he'd seem like a man to me not just a spoiled little boy.

Jordan was (and is) a MAN.

Has anyone even brought up how Jordan played college basketball too? None of this straight to the NBA crap? So after he leaves for the NBA a year early, he also comes back and finishes his college degree in 1986.

Arguably college might have helped prepare him better for the NBA, but there are three less years he has to win MVPs, etc than LeBron... Add a year and a half "retirement," in there as well.

Now before anyone gets his/her panties in a twist - yes I'm from Ohio, no I don't like what LeBron did. Yes I am also a Bulls fan since I was a kid, so yeah I am a bit partial to Jordan over Lebron.

You can't just look at raw stats, but look at how they played overall. I've watched both of them play and although they played different positions, I still haven't been as impressed by anyone as much as Jordan impressed me, consistently.

Is Lebron the best in the league right now. Probably yes. Is he the best ever? Not at the moment. I agree with Kat about needing to stand on his own. He didn't own up to moving to Miami, there's always an excuse. Put him on a team similar to Jordan's and see if they dominate...

Long and short is it is a matter of opinion. If you think Lebron is the greatest evar, so be it. However you best get over trying to convince me or anyone else that Lebron is better than Jordan. Right now IMO he's not. Lebron is the one who needs to do the convincing....

the only reason Jordan went back and finished is because he was injured pretty much that whole season, and Jordan wasn't good enough to get drafted out of high school, so college definitely made him more nba ready.

it's Jordan's fault he retired in his prime no one else, that argument only argues against him, not for. hypotheticals mean nothing.

the cavaliers still haven't made the playoffs after Lebron left and they had the best record in the league, next season Jordan first retired the bulls had a 55 win season. Jordan had a TON of talent around him compare to Lebron in Cleveland, mostly due to the fact Dan Gibert is an absolute moron.

if you put Lebron on the bulls they would be the best defensive team in the league, and top 3 all time defensively. him + Scottie pippen = literally no one could score on them.

Re: Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:35 pm | #2255

Quote by The Snapple Cap:

if social media was as prevelant in the 90's as it was today, you would realize Jordan is the worst excuse of a human being you could think of, but he was a great basketball player.

Lololololol

Coming from the guy who wasn't even alive back then.

Believe me, Chicago residents knew how crappy these guys were as people at the time (insert Scottie Pippen child support joke here) and no one needs social media to realize what a shit bag Lebron is, either. But beyond skill, Jordan elevated the talent of everyone around him, and Lebron does not. None of the talented players he played with were ever as good on any other teams as they were on the Bulls. Lebron needs others to elevate him. So no, not equals. Not yet. Not close.

Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:41 pm | #2256

how can you argue that when Lebron made mo Williams look like a real 2nd option while in Cleveland? and it's not hard to make the players around you look great with Scottie pippen and Horace grant.

but I guess Lebron doesn't make people look great though when working with less. cavs went from a first seed to first pick the draft in 2 years but that's not because he elevated his teammates and made them look better then they actually were.

LeFraud James, LeBum James.

you obviously did not watch the playoffs last year when bosh was out and wade (what a surprise) was injured.

edit: and if you put Jordan on those cavs teams and Lebron oh the bus, Lebron would have the 8 peat (because he wouldn't be an idiot and retire in his prime) and Jordan would not have a ring and always be criticized for it like Lebron was due to the god awful structuring of that team.

double edit: Jordan sure elevated his kids like everyone else around him right!? he sure made bobcats a great team as their gm and elevating them right!?

Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:46 pm | #2257

He's playing on his kids teams? Or the bobcats?

Strawman much??
*edit*
As far as the rest, it depends on your opinion of the players surrounding each of them. You obviously have higher opinions of the other Bulls and lower opinions of the other Cavs and Heat than pretty much everyone else posting about this, so that's why you view it differently.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:51 pm | #2258

Quote by The Snapple Cap:

Quote by Minioger:

Has anyone even brought up how Jordan played college basketball too? None of this straight to the NBA crap? So after he leaves for the NBA a year early, he also comes back and finishes his college degree in 1986.

Arguably college might have helped prepare him better for the NBA, but there are three less years he has to win MVPs, etc than LeBron... Add a year and a half "retirement," in there as well.

Now before anyone gets his/her panties in a twist - yes I'm from Ohio, no I don't like what LeBron did. Yes I am also a Bulls fan since I was a kid, so yeah I am a bit partial to Jordan over Lebron.

You can't just look at raw stats, but look at how they played overall. I've watched both of them play and although they played different positions, I still haven't been as impressed by anyone as much as Jordan impressed me, consistently.

Is Lebron the best in the league right now. Probably yes. Is he the best ever? Not at the moment. I agree with Kat about needing to stand on his own. He didn't own up to moving to Miami, there's always an excuse. Put him on a team similar to Jordan's and see if they dominate...

Long and short is it is a matter of opinion. If you think Lebron is the greatest evar, so be it. However you best get over trying to convince me or anyone else that Lebron is better than Jordan. Right now IMO he's not. Lebron is the one who needs to do the convincing....

the only reason Jordan went back and finished is because he was injured pretty much that whole season, and Jordan wasn't good enough to get drafted out of high school, so college definitely made him more nba ready.

it's Jordan's fault he retired in his prime no one else, that argument only argues against him, not for. hypotheticals mean nothing.

the cavaliers still haven't made the playoffs after Lebron left and they had the best record in the league, next season Jordan first retired the bulls had a 55 win season. Jordan had a TON of talent around him compare to Lebron in Cleveland, mostly due to the fact Dan Gibert is an absolute moron.

if you put Lebron on the bulls they would be the best defensive team in the league, and top 3 all time defensively. him + Scottie pippen = literally no one could score on them.

Again you are stating opinion. You can't say that Jordan wasn't ready for the NBA, he didn't go to the NBA straight from college. I'm simply pointing out that at 28 Lebron has had more time to accumulate awards (if that is a basis for him being GOAT).

So what Jordan was hurt. Lots of players get hurt and don't go back to college. Taking the time to finish your degree when making lots o' cash = good example for people. Yes Jordan had a gambling problem, but barring that, what sort of atrocity did he commit to make him a dirtbag?

....and retiring after his father was murdered....how dare he? Nothing wrong with reevaluating your life after something that dramatic happens.

Look Snapple, you think Lebron is the greatest ever...good for you. But you're simply not going to convince the rest of us that he is better than Jordan. Could he yet be? Yes it's possible. But he's not there. IMO no one was such a gamechanger as Jordan, yes stats are kind of useless, but there are ones that back that up.

Pippen was a great player and calling him a roleplayer was not right, but thinking that Rodman was more than a roleplayer is silly too.

Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:51 pm | #2259

he's the general manager in charger of the roster, hiring/firing of coaching staff, and drafting and signing players.

his kids literally couldn't make the d league from the GOAT basement all player as a father? Austin rivers literally got drafted because his dad is a coach, says something if they are nowhere near the nba.

Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 3:58 pm | #2260

Quote by The Snapple Cap:

he's the general manager in charger of the roster, hiring/firing of coaching staff, and drafting and signing players.

his kids literally couldn't make the d league from the GOAT basement all player as a father? Austin rivers literally got drafted because his dad is a coach, says something if they are nowhere near the nba.

There is a difference from improving people as a player and as a manager/GM. Sometimes actions can inspire much better than a "go get 'em" speech.

I thought this was about Jordan's skill as a player, not what he has done since retirement?

Regardless, I've said my piece. Jordan is the GOAT IMO. The only person who can convince me that Lebron is better is Lebron himself. Let's see how the next few years go then argue about it.

Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 4:03 pm | #2261

Quote by The Snapple Cap:

his kids literally couldn't make the d league from the GOAT basement all player as a father? Austin rivers literally got drafted because his dad is a coach, says something if they are nowhere near the nba.

Sooo... Lebron is GOAT because his kids are great at basketball?

Lol I'm out too. :laugh:

:laugh:

Re: Re: Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 4:05 pm | #2262

Quote by Kat:

Quote by The Snapple Cap:

his kids literally couldn't make the d league from the GOAT basement all player as a father? Austin rivers literally got drafted because his dad is a coach, says something if they are nowhere near the nba.

Sooo... Lebron is GOAT because his kids are great at basketball?

Lol I'm out too. :laugh:

:laugh:

so out of all the posts I made you nit pick at the gm/kids reference!? :mad:

:mad:

I mad.

Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 4:12 pm | #2263

Seriously?????

Of the likely places for a debate over religious free expression to erupt, a Texas high school track and field meet probably wasn’t high on the list.

Remarkably, that’s precisely where one athlete’s reactionary gesture has led to a broader discussion about what is appropriate at public school events, after a Columbus (Texas) High relay team was disqualified for one of their member’s heavenward gesture. The incident occurred in Columbus, where the track and field team was hosting a meet with the goal of qualify athletes for the state championship meet later in May.

As first reported by Houston CBS affiliate KHOU, the school’s 4x100-meter relay squad achieved just that in winning its race decisively. The anchor of that 4x100 squad was junior Derrick Hayes, who ran a particularly blazing split and celebrated the team’s state qualification with a simple finger point to the heavens.

The gesture is a common one in sports -- remember Sammy Sosa or Barry Bonds after breaking the single season home run record? -- but on this occasion, it was deemed to have run afoul of a University Interscholastic League (UIL) regulation barring excessive celebration.

Once officials at the Columbus meet determined that Hayes had violated the excessive celebration rules, the entire 4x100-meter squad was disqualified and effectively barred from the state championships. The team will not get another chance to qualify for the meet.

“He put his hand by his ear and pointed to the heavens,” Hayes’ father, KC Hayes, told KHOU. “It was a reaction. You’re brought up your whole life that God gives you good things, you’re blessed.”

While there appears to be little recourse for the runners to be reinstated in the state championships, that hardly means that the surprising disqualification is a closed issue. Instead, residents around the area have spoken up in support of the teen athlete and questioning the wisdom of any UIL rule that would prohibit a form of religious free expression.

“I don’t see what the big deal is,” Columbus resident Laporchia Miller told KHOU. “When people are thanking God, he’s the reason we live.”

Added Weimar resident Steve Williams, when the station told him that it was policy to bar any hand gestures under the excessive celebration rules:
“Well, then it’s not a good policy.”

Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 6:03 pm | #2264

Did you seriously say Scottie Pippen was one of the top 30 best basketball players of all time? He is a good player that Jordan made look great. 16 pts, 5 assists and 2 steals per game is not bad but top 30? He is a great defender but Wtf. What you know must be 100% from watching ESPN classic. The bulls did not have half the talent the Heat have now. And how is Rodman NOT a roleplayer? I think Phil Jackson was going to shoot him every time he forgot to get rebounds and threw up a air ball.

Wade by himself is in the top 3-4 best players in the league and already won a ring with a much less talented team.

Re: Random Sports Talk

05/06/13 6:30 pm | #2265

wade is not even a top 10 player in the league right now. for reference Lebron/cp3/howard/Duncan/melo/Kobe/durant/rose/westbrook/harden are all better then wade, and that took 5 seconds to think up.

wade literally had Shaq in a year he got cheated out of an MVP the year he won, so lol no.

when the nba did its "top 50 players of all time list in 1996-1997" it had Scottie Pippen (one of only eleven active players to be picked) and was 36thz mind you on same list Jordan was in the 20's, and considering he had some playoff success after Jordan retired, it's universally accepted pippen is a top 30 player. he was the second beat defensive wing player in the league, and could guard 4 positions. he was like a poor mans version of Lebron James.

it's ridiculous that bulls fans think it was all role players when it clearly wasn't, Jordan had a shit ton of talent surrounding him.

oh and Lebron has the second longest winning streak in NBA history. now you may argue "defense is worse now then it was in the 90's" when that is statically false. on average teams scored more and the team that gave up most points in 90's was over 5 points higher then the last place defensive ranked team now.

so GG your argument.

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