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Re: Lost Odyssey Review
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Yea I see your RPG marathon on your recent played lol. Enchanted Arms is a sore sight for me, it reminds me of bad things. As I was transferring my saved games to a new xbox, and during the transfer, Enchanted Arms, Beowulf, The Darkness (MP) GTA IV, Kane & Lynch, Midnight Club LA, Red Dead Redemption, Soulcalibur IV, and Turok all corrupted at some point. That's why now I am trying to finish up the games I have started and then get around to playing all the above again :/
Re: Re: Lost Odyssey Review
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Quote by EnemyBritBomber:


Yea I see your RPG marathon on your recent played lol. Enchanted Arms is a sore sight for me, it reminds me of bad things. As I was transferring my saved games to a new xbox, and during the transfer, Enchanted Arms, Beowulf, The Darkness (MP) GTA IV, Kane & Lynch, Midnight Club LA, Red Dead Redemption, Soulcalibur IV, and Turok all corrupted at some point. That's why now I am trying to finish up the games I have started and then get around to playing all the above again :/



Enchanted Arms is actually quite unique compared to most 360 RPG's. It's too bad the characters and plot-line are so ill conceived.
Re: Re: Re: Lost Odyssey Review
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Quote by Vermillion Haze:



Quote by Kat:


Lost Odyssey has none of the recurring themes that run through final fantasy (yes even in ffxii or ffxiii). Saying it is a final fantasy game is like saying the new tomb raider game should be in the Batman Arkham xx series.

Sakaguchi had far more influence over Blue Dragon and possibly even Super Mario RPG than Lost Odyssey, and they're not Final Fantasy games either.

Pigeon holing all turn-based RPGs as "final fantasy" games because they have the same game play mechanics or sweeping plot lines (which is the only similarity I can find between LO and FF) does a disservice to both, and is the reason people who don't like FF don't try other jrpgs and the genre is dying out.



Hmmmm a stoic warrior with no memory joins a ragtag group amidst a industrial-magic revolution to defeat a foe with underlining connections to himself. (FFVII?) Black Magic/White Magic spell system and air ships (Almost every FF). But yeah your right it has no recurring themes that run through FF :)

Oh did I mention the cantankerous air pirate inspired by Cid named Sed? Or the Nobou score blazing in the background. Oh never-mind. Probably coincidental.

All I was trying to say was this was Sakaguchi's love letter to FF fans and is more true to the series than FFXIII. If the turn based battle system is the only similarity you can find, maybe you need to play Lost Odyssey again.



So every rpg that divides magic into black and white is an ff throwback? Black Mage/ white Mage- those are tropes. Destructive magic vs healing magic.

Silent protagonist with a forgotten past? Trope. Bad guy with ties to hero? Trope.

For every final fantasy reference you list, there are other (non-final fantasy) games with the same tropes and plot devices. Jrpgs pretty much have checklists for development- although in ff, the leads seem to be kids who develop and mature through the course of the game- not ancient old men who don't age.

And I don't know that the music score can be credited to this being a ff game- because it's not- it's just that nobuo uematsu and sakaguchi still work together after leaving square and starting their own companies. That's not coincidental but it's not an homage to final fantasy either.

As far as Sed- i'll give you that one, and a partial for the airship, but rather than seeming like a love letter to ff fans, it seemed more like a wink and a nod. Or maybe like I should be having Siri google "one trick pony."

I liked Lost Odssey, but I continuously found myself bored, bored, bored. I could never figure out why, but there it was. It's the same way I was bored with Blue Dragon and never at all with any ff game. So to me, Sakaguchi may be the father of final fantasy, but he wasn't the soul of it- because I find FF more interesting without him than I find him without them. So my point is simply that this isn't what FF should have been, it is what it is.
Re: Lost Odyssey Review
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You said "it has none of the recurring [FF] themes" and then listed several in your next post.

The original FF is the first RPG I played that specifically divided its magic up like that, white and black. Elder Scrolls Arena had schools and Ultima just had spells.

You mention a few tropes that LO and FF have in common. Perhaps consider why they are JRPG tropes in the first place--FF's legacy can't be denied.

And I honestly do feel like having Uematsu-san do the music was supposed to be an homage for FF fans, or at the very least incentive to get them interested. Same as it was in Blue Dragon.

I wouldn't call LO a Final Fantasy game but to me it is by far the closest thing on 360, and I think that was intentional on the part of the developers.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lost Odyssey Review
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Quote by Kat:



Quote by Vermillion Haze:




Hmmmm a stoic warrior with no memory joins a ragtag group amidst a industrial-magic revolution to defeat a foe with underlining connections to himself. (FFVII?) Black Magic/White Magic spell system and air ships (Almost every FF). But yeah your right it has no recurring themes that run through FF :)

Oh did I mention the cantankerous air pirate inspired by Cid named Sed? Or the Nobou score blazing in the background. Oh never-mind. Probably coincidental.

All I was trying to say was this was Sakaguchi's love letter to FF fans and is more true to the series than FFXIII. If the turn based battle system is the only similarity you can find, maybe you need to play Lost Odyssey again.



So every rpg that divides magic into black and white is an ff throwback? Black Mage/ white Mage- those are tropes. Destructive magic vs healing magic.

Silent protagonist with a forgotten past? Trope. Bad guy with ties to hero? Trope.

For every final fantasy reference you list, there are other (non-final fantasy) games with the same tropes and plot devices. Jrpgs pretty much have checklists for development- although in ff, the leads seem to be kids who develop and mature through the course of the game- not ancient old men who don't age.

And I don't know that the music score can be credited to this being a ff game- because it's not- it's just that nobuo uematsu and sakaguchi still work together after leaving square and starting their own companies. That's not coincidental but it's not an homage to final fantasy either.

As far as Sed- i'll give you that one, and a partial for the airship, but rather than seeming like a love letter to ff fans, it seemed more like a wink and a nod. Or maybe like I should be having Siri google "one trick pony."

I liked Lost Odssey, but I continuously found myself bored, bored, bored. I could never figure out why, but there it was. It's the same way I was bored with Blue Dragon and never at all with any ff game. So to me, Sakaguchi may be the father of final fantasy, but he wasn't the soul of it- because I find FF more interesting without him than I find him without them. So my point is simply that this isn't what FF should have been, it is what it is.



You said it has no recurring themes that Final Fantasy utilizes. I'm saying it has more than I can count. While it is true many other titles adopt these same themes, it still does not change the fact Lost Odyssey is full to the brim with them. While you tired of the same old formula and embraced XIII I found THAT to be extremely "Boring, boring, boring". But that's just tastes evolving over time and staying the same in my case.

As for the musical score. There are some "easter eggs" that appear in the soundtrack.

In fact the games has several easter eggs beyond Sed. Porom and Palom from Final Fantasy IV are suspiciously similar to Cooke and Mack. There is a ship called Cadasith and the list goes on. I think of Easter eggs as paying homage. But maybe I'm wrong.


It's my opinion Sakaguchi was the soul of FF. You said it yourself he was the father. Without the father the child grows and becomes something else entirely. The fact you like it better without him only reinforces this fact. For good or bad it will never be the same.
Re: Re: Lost Odyssey Review
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Quote by Meta:


You said "it has none of the recurring [FF] themes" and then listed several in your next post.

The original FF is the first RPG I played that specifically divided its magic up like that, white and black. Elder Scrolls Arena had schools and Ultima just had spells.

You mention a few tropes that LO and FF have in common. Perhaps consider why they are JRPG tropes in the first place--FF's legacy can't be denied.

And I honestly do feel like having Uematsu-san do the music was supposed to be an homage for FF fans, or at the very least incentive to get them interested. Same as it was in Blue Dragon.

I wouldn't call LO a Final Fantasy game but to me it is by far the closest thing on 360, and I think that was intentional on the part of the developers.




None of those were the themes I meant and as I said, I don't feel that those are FF specific- except Sed/Cid who I forgot about.

I agree that it's the closest thing on 360 to a Sakaguchi FF game. That doesn't mean it is one, or that 13 and 13-2 are not ff because they don't have a Sakaguchi feel.

@vh, you're using "recurring theme" to describe throwbacks to specific games and Easter eggs. That's not what I meant or (I don't think) even what the phrase means.
Re: Re: Re: Lost Odyssey Review
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Quote by Kat:



Quote by Meta:


You said "it has none of the recurring [FF] themes" and then listed several in your next post.

The original FF is the first RPG I played that specifically divided its magic up like that, white and black. Elder Scrolls Arena had schools and Ultima just had spells.

You mention a few tropes that LO and FF have in common. Perhaps consider why they are JRPG tropes in the first place--FF's legacy can't be denied.

And I honestly do feel like having Uematsu-san do the music was supposed to be an homage for FF fans, or at the very least incentive to get them interested. Same as it was in Blue Dragon.

I wouldn't call LO a Final Fantasy game but to me it is by far the closest thing on 360, and I think that was intentional on the part of the developers.




None of those were the themes I meant and as I said, I don't feel that those are FF specific- except Sed/Cid who I forgot about.

I agree that it's the closest thing on 360 to a Sakaguchi FF game. That doesn't mean it is one, or that 13 and 13-2 are not ff because they don't have a Sakaguchi feel.



Just because I think Lost Odyssey is more true to what FF was does not mean I don't realize XIII is what it's become. If I think it's a shell of it's former self it's just my opinion.
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