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Archived: Happy 4th of July?

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Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 2:29 am | #1

Here's a video about a guy that tries to assert his constitutional rights at a DUI checkpoint. I decided to pick this for current events at school, so I'd like your help! Watch the video and tell me what you think. Was he right? Was he wrong? Did he do everything right, or what should he have done differently. Also, any random thoughts you have about it would be great. Tell me what you think!

From the YouTube description:

Rutherford County Sheriff’s Deputy AJ Ross orders me to pull over and get out of my car, bullies me around, gets the drug sniffing K-9, lies about me having “Illegal Drugs” in the car, searches without consent, and tells me that it is ok to take away my freedom. All while not being detained. All this harassment because my window was not lowered enough to his preference. I broke no laws whatsoever. All of this on a day that we are supposed to be celebrating freedom and liberty. This checkpoint was in Murfreesboro, TN. At the end of the encounter, the officer did not want to give me his name when I asked him. After I repeatedly asked him, he finally gave it to me.

Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 3:28 am | #2

I loved when he told the cop the window was fine and he could hear him, and when the cops started talking shit... then they noticed the camera.

Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 7:41 am | #3

If he would have just put his window down he would have been home increasing his gamer score!

Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 10:25 am | #4

Here's the thing- DUI checkpoints are a violation of 4th amendment rights. That's not a secret. But they have been ruled constitutional by the supreme court because the interest in getting drunk drivers off the road outweighs the individuals rights. So you cooperate. By baiting a cop, and being belligerent, acting like he has something to hide, this guy gave them reasonable suspicion and brings everything onto himself. A little knowledge would have helped him in this situation.

From the cop's perspective- you never know who is in a car, how desperate they are or what they have to hide. They require windows to be rolled down for their own safety.

Re: Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 1:28 pm | #5

Quote by Kat:

Here's the thing- DUI checkpoints are a violation of 4th amendment rights. That's not a secret. But they have been ruled constitutional by the supreme court because the interest in getting drunk drivers off the road outweighs the individuals rights. So you cooperate. By baiting a cop, and being belligerent, acting like he has something to hide, this guy gave them reasonable suspicion and brings everything onto himself. A little knowledge would have helped him in this situation.

From the cop's perspective- you never know who is in a car, how desperate they are or what they have to hide. They require windows to be rolled down for their own safety.

That still didn't make it right to illegally search his car, was he a prick? Well kind of, he obviously was instigating, but still, that doesn't give the police the right to be above the law.

Re: Re: Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 1:32 pm | #6

Quote by Daniel:

Quote by Kat:

Here's the thing- DUI checkpoints are a violation of 4th amendment rights. That's not a secret. But they have been ruled constitutional by the supreme court because the interest in getting drunk drivers off the road outweighs the individuals rights. So you cooperate. By baiting a cop, and being belligerent, acting like he has something to hide, this guy gave them reasonable suspicion and brings everything onto himself. A little knowledge would have helped him in this situation.

From the cop's perspective- you never know who is in a car, how desperate they are or what they have to hide. They require windows to be rolled down for their own safety.

That still didn't make it right to illegally search his car, was he a prick? Well kind of, he obviously was instigating, but still, that doesn't give the police the right to be above the law.

You're missing the point- it wasn't an illegal search. The stop was legal even though it violates the 4th amendment. Once the guy refused to follow the cop's directions, the cop had a reason to search him.

In the video the kid keeps saying "this is illegal" or "that is illegal." That doesn't mean it's true.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 1:49 pm | #7

Quote by Kat:

Quote by Daniel:

That still didn't make it right to illegally search his car, was he a prick? Well kind of, he obviously was instigating, but still, that doesn't give the police the right to be above the law.

You're missing the point- it wasn't an illegal search. The stop was legal even though it violates the 4th amendment. Once the guy refused to follow the cop's directions, the cop had a reason to search him.

In the video the kid keeps saying "this is illegal" or "that is illegal." That doesn't mean it's true.

You are not legally required to roll down your window, that's not a lawfully required command to obey from a police officer, at least rolling it down more isn't. Correct me if I'm wrong but the fact that you said "The stop was legal even though it violates the 4th amendment" doesn't that make it illegal? In the end it comes down to technicalities which can be a good thing or a bad thing.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 3:01 pm | #8

Quote by Daniel:

Quote by Kat:

You're missing the point- it wasn't an illegal search. The stop was legal even though it violates the 4th amendment. Once the guy refused to follow the cop's directions, the cop had a reason to search him.

In the video the kid keeps saying "this is illegal" or "that is illegal." That doesn't mean it's true.

You are not legally required to roll down your window, that's not a lawfully required command to obey from a police officer, at least rolling it down more isn't. Correct me if I'm wrong but the fact that you said "The stop was legal even though it violates the 4th amendment" doesn't that make it illegal? In the end it comes down to technicalities which can be a good thing or a bad thing.

I could go into a lot with this one but the point is Daniel that if it is a DUI stop and someone won't roll the window down far enough, any good cop is going to question why. That window wasn't open enough for the cop to smell if the guy had alcohol on his breath.

I'm all for each of us having our liberty and I'm against how it was handled after that, however asking someone to roll the window down a bit further was not a difficult task. $100 says that crap wouldn't have happened had the guy just complied a little bit. That's what I hate about these videos, people want to make a point but they don't respond in a normal manner.

Most people who had nothing to hide wouldn't have normally just refused to roll a window down. I'd think the guy was hiding something as well.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 3:29 pm | #9

Quote by Minioger:

Quote by Daniel:

You are not legally required to roll down your window, that's not a lawfully required command to obey from a police officer, at least rolling it down more isn't. Correct me if I'm wrong but the fact that you said "The stop was legal even though it violates the 4th amendment" doesn't that make it illegal? In the end it comes down to technicalities which can be a good thing or a bad thing.

I could go into a lot with this one but the point is Daniel that if it is a DUI stop and someone won't roll the window down far enough, any good cop is going to question why. That window wasn't open enough for the cop to smell if the guy had alcohol on his breath.

I'm all for each of us having our liberty and I'm against how it was handled after that, however asking someone to roll the window down a bit further was not a difficult task. $100 says that crap wouldn't have happened had the guy just complied a little bit. That's what I hate about these videos, people want to make a point but they don't respond in a normal manner.

Most people who had nothing to hide wouldn't have normally just refused to roll a window down. I'd think the guy was hiding something as well.

Oh I understand, This whole situation could have been avoided had the guy just lowered his window, he didn't technically have to lower his window for the cop, but by doing that he aroused his suspicion. I don't like the way it was handled though they were both in the wrong.

I'm not defending the guy but he does have a point that police should not be able to search you like he was but at the same time I understand where the Officer is coming from but that's just my opinion.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 3:36 pm | #10

Quote by Daniel:

Quote by Minioger:

I could go into a lot with this one but the point is Daniel that if it is a DUI stop and someone won't roll the window down far enough, any good cop is going to question why. That window wasn't open enough for the cop to smell if the guy had alcohol on his breath.

I'm all for each of us having our liberty and I'm against how it was handled after that, however asking someone to roll the window down a bit further was not a difficult task. $100 says that crap wouldn't have happened had the guy just complied a little bit. That's what I hate about these videos, people want to make a point but they don't respond in a normal manner.

Most people who had nothing to hide wouldn't have normally just refused to roll a window down. I'd think the guy was hiding something as well.

Oh I understand, This whole situation could have been avoided had the guy just lowered his window, he didn't technically have to lower his window for the cop, but by doing that he aroused his suspicion. I don't like the way it was handled though they were both in the wrong.

I'm not defending the guy but he does have a point that police should not be able to search you like he was but at the same time I understand where the Officer is coming from but that's just my opinion.

No I'm with you 100%, it should not have been handled the way it was, the guy wasn't being belligerent. Although still wrong to be searched that way, if someone is belligerent to the cops I'd feel the reaction they had would have been more appropriate.

Frankly the cop should have simply informed the guy that he needed to make sure he had not been drinking and ask him again to roll his window down. The problem is there are some cops who are just a-holes, but on the other hand these guys (cops) go out there and deal with a lot of people giving them hell for no reason other than doing their jobs.

I get the point of this guy's video, however I'm not a big fan of making a point in the way he did.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 5:33 pm | #11

Quote by Daniel:

Quote by Kat:

You're missing the point- it wasn't an illegal search. The stop was legal even though it violates the 4th amendment. Once the guy refused to follow the cop's directions, the cop had a reason to search him.

In the video the kid keeps saying "this is illegal" or "that is illegal." That doesn't mean it's true.

You are not legally required to roll down your window, that's not a lawfully required command to obey from a police officer, at least rolling it down more isn't. Correct me if I'm wrong but the fact that you said "The stop was legal even though it violates the 4th amendment" doesn't that make it illegal? In the end it comes down to technicalities which can be a good thing or a bad thing.

No- it is legal. The Supreme Court ruled DUI stops as legal even though they violate the 4th amendment. So if you go into one like a dick thinking you'll have some 4th amendment lawsuit on your hands, you'll be wrong. That's what I'm saying.

No, he didn't HAVE to roll the window all the way down- but it was a reasonable leap from there for the cop to decide at that point that he had something to hide, especially when the kid wouldn't give him his age, at which point he was able to request his id, ask him to get out of his car and search the car.

If he was going to refuse to cooperate at the DUI checkpoint on principle, there is a script to follow, and some law firms even have cards you can hand to the cop with your license. But cooperating with police always makes the most sense- these checkpoints aren't always about duis- sometimes they're looking for people. The laws will almost always be in the cop's favor.

@mini, I disagree- I think the kid sounded like a little punk asshole and would take that as belligerence. Lol I hate little boys.

Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/06/13 7:34 pm | #12

If the cop has probable cause I.E. someone being a douche and not complying with an order to roll a window down, he can do whatever he wants and it's completely legal. As long as a cop gives you a lawful command and you resist, all your rights pretty much cease to exist because you're resisting (obviously not all of your rights but you should understand what I'm saying). DUI checkpoints aren't illegal either, as long as a checkpoint checks every car or every 3rd, 5th, whatever car they're completely legal, they become illegal when the cops decide to check cars at random.

Source? 4 years of law enforcement classes.

Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/07/13 10:50 am | #13

Yes! ^ that's what I was trying to say!

Re: Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/07/13 11:55 am | #14

Quote by Kat:

Yes! ^ that's what I was trying to say!

You know I got your back!

Re: Happy 4th of July?

07/07/13 12:58 pm | #15

Notice how the cops name is AJ and he was a bit of a dick.....coincidence?

:laugh:

But seriously, thanks for that AJ, I thought there had to be a reason everyone doesn't sue (or succeed at it) for a DUI checkpoint. So yes, I still reiterate my comment that the guy should have just rolled his window down.

@Kat to me belligerence is more in the tone of how it's said and the guy was pretty flat in his tone. I get where you are coming from after I watched it again. "No this is fine." Yeah, that would have irked me too.

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